• Estimating 2020 Ford GT500 5.2 Predator V8 output, capability, and comparing it to the competition

      We live in a world where horsepower figures are exploding. Coming to market is a supercharged Mustang with well over 700 horsepower with a warranty (that Ford will even let you drag race/track) that will easily be able to clear quadruple digit output in the aftermarket.

      Yes, easy quadruple digits. How do we know this? Thanks to the Eaton TVS R2650 supercharger at the heart of the V8.

      This is a large, efficient, and very capable blower featuring a new design compared to smaller Eaton TVS blowers.

      A big difference is the 170 degree twist of the rotors compared to previous 160 degree designs. Why is this a big deal? Because the 170 degree design offers greater top end air flow. Combine this greater output with the 7500 rpm redline of the Predator and you are going to have a motor with some strong highway pull.

      Remember the GM LT4 V8 utilized in the C7 Corvette Z06? It features a TVS1740 supercharger. This is a 6.2 liter V8 with a supercharger almost a full liter smaller than what the Predator will see.

      The supercharger choice by GM was a mistake. They will not admit it but the LT5 V8 in the ZR1 going to the same TVS R2650 as the Predator essentially confirms it. GM went for low end response and sized a blower for the Z06 that needed to be spun hard to make power in turn generating a lot of heat. This also did not leave as much headroom for higher boost pulley swaps as you might think.

      Just look at the efficiency advantage the R2650 provides over an R2300 let alone a TVS1740:

      The high twist, 4-lobe rotor design is 15% larger than the TVS 2300 and features several improvements to maximize efficiency and performance at upper RPMs:

      • 170 degree twist (versus 160)
      • Better sealing with optimized "Length to Diameter" ratio
      • Increased durability with larger bearings and timing gears
      • Pressure relief ports in bearing plate for reduced input power

      R2650 advantages over R2300:

      • 4% more efficient
      • 15% larger displacement (2650cc versus 2300cc)
      • 18% less input power required
      • 25% more air flow at 18,000 RPM and 14 psi boost (2.0 pressure ratio)

      25% more air flow at 18,000 RPM and 14 PSI of boost is excellent. Less heat, more air, that's a winning combination.

      Early reports are that the GT500 will see 12 psi of boost pressure. Do not be hoping for more boost. Hope for more power with less boost pressure and in turn less heat. That also means room to crank the blower up. Hope for volumetric efficiency. The heads being based on the Voodoo GT350 V8 design will greatly help with making power and flowing air efficiently.

      Let's look at an LT4 dyno (overlaid on an LS9):

      Notice the torque curve holds well until about 5000 rpm where it takes a dive. The LT4 is great for lighting your rear tires up and not so much for revving out to redline.

      Still, 573 rear wheel horsepower and 561 rear wheel torque is fairly strong.

      The ZR1 LT5 with its R2650 takes things up considerably:

      668 rwhp and 644 lb-ft of rear wheel torque. Also notice the power curve is much prettier with power building until redline. The torque curve is flatter and it drops in a steady, progressive manner as it is revved out.

      To be noted, the LT5 sees 14 psi of boost pressure from the factory.

      Ford knows exactly what the actual output of the LT5 is. They know the LT4's output. They know the Hellcat's output and the Demon's output. They know they are coming to market after these cars.

      Speaking of which, the Demon/Red Eye is the only competition featuring a larger supercharger at 2.8 liters but it is also a twin screw design.

      Ford is not coming to play with Hellcats in 2019. They intend to be the top dog. That means they know they are competing with this as well:

      The Hellcat with its 2.4 liter screw is producing 670 rwhp in STD correction on a Dynojet on pump fuel. The Demon and its 2.8 liter unit takes things to 704 wheel horsepower on pump fuel in STD correction.

      Want a guess? The GT500 will produce somewhere in between the Demon and the Hellcat pump fuel figures. That extra 1000 rpm the GT500 Predator V8 has on the LT5's redline in the Corvette ZR1 will really allow the R2650 to shine.

      Doesn't the Hellcat feature race gas modes? Why yes, it does. Here is what its output looks like on the race gas tune with and without race gas:

      776 rwhp is a lot of power and the GT500 will not be able to outmuscle it stock for stock. Dodge has Ford beat there with their one trick pony. The thing is, the GT500 does not have to.

      Hellcats are fat and Demons are not much lighter. The GT500 hopefully will come in under those 4200 pound rumors and with a dual clutch transmission be much more efficient for its output. It will be much more fun to drive. The GT500 will be able to do more with less and certainly will not have to fear anything from Hellcats while Demons will need to run race gas to be confident.

      Keep in mind, bigger is not always better. The TVS2650 will actually hold an advantage in flow over the 2.8 liter twin screw up until certain boost levels.

      Don't believe it? If only we could see what the Hellcat looks like with a TVS2650. Well, Magnuson fortunately has a TVS2650 Hellcat swap kit which tells us quite a bit:

      • True reliable operating range to 20,000 RPM
      • 33% higher flow than TVS2300
      • 10% higher flow than a 2.9 screw
      • 14% higher adiabatic efficiency at 14k rpm and 2.0 pressure ratio compared to screw 2.9 at the same flow
      • 75F lower discharge temperature at 14k rpm and 2.0 pressure ratio compared to screw 2.9 at the same flow
      • 26 HP less input power required at 14k rpm and 2.0 pressure ration compared to screw 2.9 at the same flow

      They hit 946 horsepower to the wheels at only 5800 rpm. We are going to see quadruple digits from bolt on tuned GT500's.

      Magnuson is going nuts with the R2650 claiming they can push it up to 1400+ horsepower if necessary on a built motor LT1:

      Ford chose the right blower and with their modified casing built around cooling it looks like there is going to be plenty of room to party.

      Forget Godzilla, the GT500 is the new king of tuning and bang for the buck performance.

      The engine not having direct injection is just a further blessing in disguise as ethanol tuning will not be fuel system limited. Ask McLaren if you think direct injection is necessary for a performance car.

      Speaking of which, the 720S is the undisputed performance king. For $350k+ it better be.

      Nearly 700 whp out of the box is no joke:

      The crazy thing is, the GT500 has nothing to fear. Sure, it will be slower stock. Let's estimate 135 mile per hour trap speeds for the GT500 whereas the 720S is a ~143 mile per hour car. The GT500's weight is a problem and for your money McLaren provides a light carbon tub but it is nothing raw muscle can not overcome.

      GT500's will be turning 140+ traps with ethanol tunes. 150+ with high boost and other goodies. Frankly, it will be a hell of a lot of fun to watch just how far stock blower cars will go.

      Ford is providing a platform that can go against the world's best at any price point. The R2650 blower choice can not be complimented enough. While the Red Eye and Demon pack a 2.8 liter twin screw there is no other car for sale in the world with a supercharger over 2.65 liters revving to 7500 rpm that is paired to a dual clutch transmission. Ford is providing the best combination of technology, efficiency, and raw muscle for the money.

      Add in carbon fiber rims, a carbon fiber driveshaft, a built in line-lock, and you have a car with features nobody else sells at any price point.

      Who else wants one?

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Estimating 2020 Ford GT500 5.2 Predator V8 output, capability, and comparing it to the competition started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 9 Comments
      1. Zombie1's Avatar
        Zombie1 -
        Id take this and a gt350 with the DCT and a procharger.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Zombie1 Click here to enlarge
        I’d take this and a gt350 with the DCT and a procharger.
        If the GT350 had a dct I would already own one.
      1. richpike's Avatar
        richpike -
        Great article.

      1. crapinternet's Avatar
        crapinternet -
        Nice read. I am hoping I can squirrel away enough pennies to pick up one of the new GT500's.

        I hope the gt500 ends up being 60% as great as the picture your article paints.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crapinternet Click here to enlarge
        I hope the gt500 ends up being 60% as great as the picture your article paints.
        The only thing missing with the GT500 will be traction.
      1. quattr0's Avatar
        quattr0 -
        Will it run over pedestrians? Click here to enlarge
      1. Batman's Avatar
        Batman -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The only thing missing with the GT500 will be traction.
        That's the biggie.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Batman Click here to enlarge
        That's the biggie.
        Traction is overrated.
      1. richpike's Avatar
        richpike -
        Confirmed: 760HP, 625lb-ft of torque. 7-speed dual clutch. This thing is going to be insane. Can’t wait to see the early track numbers.